Discussion:
The war on religion
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s***@yahoo.com
2005-04-27 05:58:25 UTC
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The war on religion


By Paul Greenberg


Mark Pryor, the junior senator from Arkansas, may not make the news
very often, but when he does say something newsworthy, it's a doozy.
The other day, he strongly objected to those religious fanatics
(fa-nat-ics -- anyone who disagrees with you strongly) who have
campaigned against the never-ending filibuster that denies the
president's judicial nominees a straight up-or-down vote in the U.S.
Senate.
Mark Pryor wasn't so much challenging these folks' political views
but their daring to express them. It's unbecoming, you see, for church
people to participate in the low rough-and-tumble of politics. Their
tactics, he says, could "make the followers of Jesus Christ just
another special interest group."
So shut up, he explained.
It's all enough to bring back memories of the good ol' bad old days
in these Southern latitudes. Back in the Furious '50s, those defending
the political status quo relied heavily on the filibuster, too, and
they, too, objected to preachers sticking their noses into politics and
riling folks.
Back then, it was the Rev. Martin Luther King Jr. and his Southern
Christian Leadership Conference (talk about mixing politics and
religion) that caused all the trouble and stirred up folks for no good
reason.
Religion may be a fine, stained-glass thing in its purely
ornamental place, but to actually take a stand on religious conviction
and fight for it, whether it's picketing a lunch counter or driving the
money-changers from the Temple, well, then you've gone from preachin'
to meddlin' -- and become a special interest, to use Mark Pryor's
damning description.
"We do need to think about the tone that we as Christians are
setting," Mr. Pryor said in a conference call with some reporters from
Arkansas, "and think about the examples we are setting."
Note the senator's reference to "we as Christians" -- he's not
above speaking for Christians in general when it suits his purposes.
And that is the charge he levels against those preachers opposing the
filibuster.
The senator's objections to religion in politics seem limited to
the Religious Right. Has he ever had a bad word for those religious
groups that have joined him in trying to save the filibuster? I have
yet to hear him go after the Interfaith Alliance, which just held a
teleconference to attack the Republican leader of the U.S. Senate.
Apparently Mr. Pryor wants to censor only some church groups. It
won't work. Anyone, including a U.S. senator, who thinks he can keep
religious ideas out of the political arena here must be talking about,
well, a different country. France, maybe, or the old Soviet Union. Or
Mexico in one of its anti-clerical seizures.
Religious concepts have been woven into the fabric of this republic
from its conception: "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all
men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with
certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the
Pursuit of Happiness. ..."
And what of Lincoln's immortal Second Inaugural, this country's
second declaration of dependence on divine Providence? Stripped of its
religious references, it would be meaningless.
And think of all the great protest movements that have made, and
are making, America what it is and is becoming. Successful or
unsuccessful, right or wrong, from abolition to civil rights,
Prohibition to Pro-Life, so many have been rooted in religious
conviction. Americans' moral imagination, so much a part of our
national character, is inseparable from our religious roots.
Mr. Pryor has every right to disagree with those whose religious
convictions lead them to different conclusions. It's a free country,
which means the political brawl is open to all comers. But the senator
has no right to keep some Americans from expressing their honest
convictions.
Most dismaying about the Pryor remarks is that he wasn't arguing
the substance of the political issue at hand -- the filibuster against
the president's judicial nominees -- but that some folks, namely
Christians, shouldn't express their views. Or at least should censor
their words to please him.
How strange. To borrow a line Mark Twain uttered when he ran across
an equally strange notion: It's not anti-American, it's not
un-American, it's French.

Paul Greenberg is a nationally syndicated columnist.
ZenIsWhen
2005-04-27 06:31:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by s***@yahoo.com
The war on religion
Which is nothing more than a distorted pile of right wing PR.
The REAL war is the atack on the Constitution and the Bill Of Rights by
right wing religious/political fanatical extremists!
Post by s***@yahoo.com
By Paul Greenberg
Mark Pryor, the junior senator from Arkansas, may not make the news
very often, but when he does say something newsworthy, it's a doozy.
The other day, he strongly objected to those religious fanatics
(fa-nat-ics -- anyone who disagrees with you strongly) who have
campaigned against the never-ending filibuster that denies the
president's judicial nominees a straight up-or-down vote in the U.S.
??????
Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson, James Kennedy, The KKK, the American Nazi
Party, religious fringe cults are "just people we strongly disagree
with"????
Post by s***@yahoo.com
Senate.
Mark Pryor wasn't so much challenging these folks' political views
but their daring to express them. It's unbecoming, you see, for church
people to participate in the low rough-and-tumble of politics. Their
tactics, he says, could "make the followers of Jesus Christ just
another special interest group."
Bull Shit!
He is RIGHTFULLY compaining that their OUTRAGEOUSLY EXTREMIST right wing
(aka Reich wing) views are asttacking democtratic rights and policies!

Their own tactics have already made them nothing more than a political
fringe group that has little or nothing to do with Christ!!!
Post by s***@yahoo.com
So shut up, he explained.
It's all enough to bring back memories of the good ol' bad old days
in these Southern latitudes. Back in the Furious '50s, those defending
the political status quo relied heavily on the filibuster, too, and
they, too, objected to preachers sticking their noses into politics and
riling folks.
Back to the 50's when few people stood up to the Klan?
Back to the 50's when it took years for someone to stand up against Joe
McCarthy and the HUAC?
Post by s***@yahoo.com
Back then, it was the Rev. Martin Luther King Jr. and his Southern
Christian Leadership Conference (talk about mixing politics and
religion) that caused all the trouble and stirred up folks for no good
reason.
For the actual BENEFIT of human beings - not the Reich wing version of
estremist, "republican" politics.

Standing up for the rights of AMERICAN citizens is one HELL of a lot
different than pushing and extremist, right wing, conservative republican
political agenda.

That you compare the two is only an indication of mental, political
corruption and ignorance!
Post by s***@yahoo.com
Religion may be a fine, stained-glass thing in its purely
ornamental place, but to actually take a stand on religious conviction
and fight for it, whether it's picketing a lunch counter or driving the
money-changers from the Temple, well, then you've gone from preachin'
to meddlin' -- and become a special interest, to use Mark Pryor's
damning description.
"We do need to think about the tone that we as Christians are
setting," Mr. Pryor said in a conference call with some reporters from
Arkansas, "and think about the examples we are setting."
Note the senator's reference to "we as Christians" -- he's not
above speaking for Christians in general when it suits his purposes.
And that is the charge he levels against those preachers opposing the
filibuster.
"Christians" have no problem with the filibuster! There is NOTHING in
Christ's life, or the bible, that even mentions such political actions.
Attacking the filibuster is nothing more than ultra right wing politics; not
"christiqana morality".
Post by s***@yahoo.com
The senator's objections to religion in politics seem limited to
the Religious Right. Has he ever had a bad word for those religious
groups that have joined him in trying to save the filibuster?
Why would you have a bad word against those trying top protect the democracy
against Hitler-esque fanatics?

I have
Post by s***@yahoo.com
yet to hear him go after the Interfaith Alliance, which just held a
teleconference to attack the Republican leader of the U.S. Senate.
For being a corrupt sleaze, who is using extremist, right wing, religious
fanaticism to cover up the fact that he IS a corrupt sleaze!!! ........
which is supported by REAL evidence!!!!!!
FauxPrez
2005-04-27 07:23:11 UTC
Permalink
In article <***@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>, ***@yahoo.com wrote:

The Religious Right are not Christians.

They're DeLayo-Fristians.
g***@bayou.com
2005-04-27 14:43:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by s***@yahoo.com
The war on religion
By Paul Greenberg
<snip>
Post by s***@yahoo.com
"We do need to think about the tone that we as Christians are
setting," Mr. Pryor said in a conference call with some reporters from
Arkansas, "and think about the examples we are setting."
Note the senator's reference to "we as Christians" -- he's not
above speaking for Christians in general when it suits his purposes.
<snip>

Yea, some of those liberals think they are Christians. I once went to
a "worship" service where there were a bunch of liberal Democrats.
Some worship service! They were completely unprepared, nobody even
brought a snake!

Those darn liberal socialist, think the world owes them a living. They
sit around and don't work and think they are entitled to breath as much
air as a hard working man. That has got to come to a halt. We need to
privatize air. And insist, "if you don't work you don't breath."

We really do need to do something about all those lazy low income
people before they get weapons of mass destruction. And do it soon,
not wait till we see the mushroom cloud.

And there ought to be a congressional investigation of Spongebob
Squarepants. In fact we better watch all those sponges; they do not
have real backbone and most, that I have come in contact with, are soft
on everything. Sponges claim they have good reasons to be wishy-washy,
but all their arguments are full of holes.
s***@yahoo.com
2005-04-27 18:44:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by g***@bayou.com
And there ought to be a congressional investigation of Spongebob
Squarepants. In fact we better watch all those sponges; they do not
have real backbone and most, that I have come in contact with, are soft
on everything. Sponges claim they have good reasons to be
wishy-washy,
Post by g***@bayou.com
but all their arguments are full of holes.
You might be on to something! :-)
Ninure Saunders
2005-04-27 22:44:01 UTC
Permalink
Olbermann uncovers Family Research Council filibuster flip-flop
http://mediamatters.org/items/200504260005

Olbermann uncovers Family Research Council filibuster flip-flop

MSNBC host Keith Olbermann noted that the Family Research Council
(FRC), which is currently campaigning to stop filibusters of President
Bush's judicial nominees by Senate Democrats, was quite vocal in the
late 1990s in defending the right to filibuster another presidential
nominee, James C. Hormel, who was nominated by President Clinton as
ambassador to Luxembourg.

On the April 25 edition of MSNBC's Countdown with Keith Olbermann,
host Olbermann recounted a statement made July 2, 1998, on National
Public Radio by FRC senior writer Steven Schwalm:

OLBERMANN:

As mentioned, the filibuster stretches back not merely to Jimmy
Stewart in Mr. Smith Goes to Washington, but to the presidential
administration of Franklin Pierce 152 years ago.

And, as a last measure of the defense of the minority, it has had many
supporters over the years, like the very people of faith who sponsored
yesterday's "Justice Sunday," the group Family Research Council.

Yesterday, it was opposed to filibusters.

Seven years ago, it was in favor of them.

That's when Clinton and a then-Democratic plurality in the Senate
wanted a man named James Hormel to become the ambassador to
Luxembourg.

Hormel, of the Spam-and-other-meats Hormels, was gay, as the Senate
minority bottled up Hormel's nomination with filibusters and threats
of filibusters, minority relative to cloture, to breaking up a
filibuster.

They did that for a year and a half.

The Family Research Council's senior writer, Steven Schwalm, appeared
on National Public Radio at the time and explained the value, even the
necessity, of the filibuster.

"The Senate," he said, "is not a majoritarian institution, like the
House of Representatives is. It is a deliberative body, and it's got a
number of checks and balances built into our government. The
filibuster is one of those checks in which a majority cannot just
sheerly force its will, even if they have a majority of votes in some
cases. That's why there are things like filibusters, and other things
that give minorities in the Senate some power to slow things up, to
hold things up, and let things be aired properly."

It's been said many times, many ways, that was then, and this is now.

____________________________________________________________

Ninure Saunders aka Rainbow Christian

The Lord is my Shepherd and He knows I'm Gay
http://Ninure-Saunders.tk

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Todd Grigsby
2005-06-16 18:09:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ninure Saunders
And, as a last measure of the defense of the minority, it has had many
supporters over the years, like the very people of faith who sponsored
yesterday's "Justice Sunday," the group Family Research Council.
There were a number of Republican filibusters over various nominations in the
early 90s. This wasn't the only one or even the most public one.

Todd Grigsby
http://www.tgrigsby.com/views
unknown
2005-06-21 03:36:04 UTC
Permalink
In article <2IWdnQQzm4XsXSzfRVn-***@comcast.com>, ***@tgrigsby.com
says...
Post by Todd Grigsby
There were a number of Republican filibusters over various nominations in the
early 90s. This wasn't the only one or even the most public one.
There's a "small" detail missing from such a claim: Republicans voted
down such attempted filibusters every time.
--
A Freedom Advocate
-+-
"[A] major source of objection to a free economy
is precisely that it... gives people what they want
instead of what a particular group thinks they ought
to want. Underlying most arguments against the free
market is the lack of belief in freedom itself."
Milton Friedman, "Capitalism and Freeodom", 1962
Todd Grigsby
2006-05-18 17:33:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by unknown
says...
Post by Todd Grigsby
There were a number of Republican filibusters over various nominations in the
early 90s. This wasn't the only one or even the most public one.
There's a "small" detail missing from such a claim: Republicans voted
down such attempted filibusters every time.
That's simply not true -- in fact, it doesn't make sense. The Republicans were
the ones filibustering, and they didn't vote themselves down. Gingrich and Dole
led nearly unified assaults on nearly every nomination Clinton put forward.
--
Todd Grigsby

http://www.tgrigsby.com/views
no.spam.comments at tgrigsby dot com (remove "no.spam.")
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